Hey all, I just got the Genesys Project and have spent the last few days making some factions with friends to see what we all like, gotta say I'm absolutely loving it. But as we made factions we came across some looseness in the rules and would like some clarification on some things.
list:
for Exotic War Animals, when you select an Animal kingdom does the war animal or mount get the natural weapon and trait that comes with the kingdom itself, or does it just give you access to the traits from that animal kingdom? For Mounts specifically it says they can only trample as attacks, so if you give them claw or bite would they be unable to use it?
When you take a Trait that gives Rare Traits X, can you then take other traits such as Hybrid monster X or bestial hybrid X to give you a bunch of traits that all only count as one?
when casters cast a spell that targets only themselves the rules state that doing so doesn't use their action. for caster classes that include more than 1 model, or for a caster that joins another squad if they cast a spell that buffs a whole unit, and they are in the unit does that use an action?
on a similar vein, for caster classes that include more than 1 model, are you casting each spell individually, as in reinforced armor, could you spread that around to multiple units since each model in the class is a caster, or is it 1 overall casting?
'Additional Properties' on a class, are you only allowed 1 extra property? or can you buy more than 1 if you want to pay the points? It's worded differently than the 'Extra Traits' or 'Increase characteristics' which always specify a number, usually 1.
if you get the same ablility through multiple sources, for instance taking a War Mount which has trample 1, and give it a trait that gives Trample X, will that stack to Trample X+1? and does that follow the maximum age limit?
Taking War Animals, the trait says they count as 'equipment', but what does this mean for them? Do they benefit from the classes traits? do they count towards morale if they die? War animals have Sentry 14, does this mean the class as a whole gets sentry now? can the war animals retreat and regroup to form a new squad the same way other models do?
the Common Mount in the armory section says that when you buy a mount you can buy a trait for them, is this only for the common mount or does this apply to warmounts as well?
Heavy Weapons. The armory rules state that heavy weapons must be stationary to fire, but i see that in the blue text the rules 'Indirect' and 'Artillery' were added, do these override the second bullet point? and for the 'Scorpio' which doesn't have any of the blue text rules, does it still have to follow the stationary rules?
'Stationary' What does this mean? in the general rules it says models can move up to their movement characteristic and still count as stationary. The Heavy Crossbow says you get +1CS if you remain stationary, but can you shoot first, getting the bonus, and then choose to move afterwards at no penalty?
Combat Situation. The rules state in the first round of combat that the higher threat range weapons strike first, and all weapons of the same threat range strike at the same time. This means that at the beginning of combat you could be benefitting from a higher CS due to outnumbering, but by the time you get to strike enough could be dead that you no longer would qualify for the bonus. do you recalculate the CS when you go to hit the enemy or is it a static modifier for the activation?
3" threat range, the rules say that a weapon with 3" threat range cannot be used to attack models engaged with you. but the rules also state that you must fight the engaged models first, does this mean if you enter base to base with a 3" threat model it can no longer fight? how does this work for large and X-large models who have a 3" threat to start with?
I think that's it for now, Depending on answers i might have more questions. Loving the game a lot, and i can't wait to see the next books!
- Joorblin
I will give my thoughts on it as well, first welcome to Genesys Project a fun game that can make your head explode trying to figure it out (not sure I have yet).
1) As I understand it "...allows you to select a Biest Kingdom from the Biest Domain for your War Animal or Warmount and add X Biest Kingdom Traits to your Warmount or War Animal ..." (I look at this as you are replacing your trained dog with a trained attack Bear). So by picking the Biest kingdom you are replacing there stats with those, so I would assume that it would also replace there abilities (such as the standard war animal's Sentry), you are then allowed to add X traits to them. As for the War Mounts attacks if you can get it attacks I do not know why it would not be able to use bite/claw, the trample is just a special that it gets to use with 0 attacks.
2) I agree with Durnaxe and can not do a better example off the top of my head.
3) If they are in a squad and the spell targets caster only then no action is used (even if every caster in squad casts spell). But if it targets the squad then it is not a caster only so it does use an action.
4) Yes, each miniature gets its own action when you activate the unit, now normally they will be acting as a unit (group of archers shooting enemy unit, melee unit attacking), but I do not know of anything that would stop you from having each do there own thing, (large group of archers shooting half at this unit other half at second unit, melee unit in combat with two different units some attacking unit one some unit two). You just have to decide before any dice are rolled.
5) I go with the unless it says otherwise it is only one. (or you house rule it).
6) For the most part yes, but make sure to read the full description of the ability as Ward said some do not (are replaced by highest, not added to each).
7) War animals as equipment means that they are not part of the squad (for moral purposes and such), as for the traits no they do not share them. It is like if you add an higher level model to the squad it does not get the traits that the squad has, and does not share its traits with them. Now having said that some traits the squad can use as long as one model in the squad has, Sentry is a good example of that. In this case the model that you built that has the war animal does not get Sentry, but when the war animal's sentry ability is activated the entire squad can function as the ability says. As war animals are not part of the squad being equipment they can not retreat and regroup to form a new squad, if there owners are destroyed they stay on the board as in there description. As for calculating the CS it is possible to have different number for different members of the squad, so you have to do each separate. For example last game I played I had a squad of melee troops with 4 members having twin melee weapons, 4 having spears (so they could attack from the back rank), and 4 war animals. This meant if they were all in combat I would have three different numbers, so figure them each out and roll separate for each.
8) First off I have never used mounts so take my thoughts with a grain of salt. Having said that I think yes, I think this based on it looks to me it is based on the key word mount, not Common Mount. That is the same key word that lets War Mounts be used to pull, and when you look at the trait that lets you pick the War Mount it says (just taking the firs all have this) "Cavalry 2pts: Warmount, Mount" So I think (could be wrong, but how I read it) that the key word mount is what lets you add a trait to it, as well as what allows you to use it to pull a wagon. So it is both or neither for War Mounts.
9) I do not have the "second edition" yet, so not sure.
10) I am right there with everyone else, you are stationary if you do not move. Now some weapons limit your movement, for example firearms can move there base and still shoot (and reload), but could be fired if they moved twice there base move, they would just not be reloaded (not an issue if you have multiple barrels).
11) As Durnaxe said first you have to figure out what melee combat is, the rules as written for this are less clear than would be ideal. My thought is that you are in melee combat as soon as the squad is, but only the individual models that are in threat range count for combat (clear as mud yet?). So when you have multiple threat range weapons you start with your largest one, lets say you have a group of five knights on horse back with heavy lances attacking a group of twenty rats with primitive melee weapons. The knights with heavy lances with 3" threat range have range to all twenty models so are they outnumbered 20 to 5 (4 to 1)? I would say no as only the rats that can attack back would count, then the thought that as they are attacking do they start the attack at 3" away so before the rats could even do anything? If this is the case then they would not be out numbered at all. So my thinking is that you take the longest threat range, and only the models that have range to attack back when you figure out the CS, as you go down in threat range the number may be different as some may have been killed, so you have to figure it out again, and so on to the last one.
12) Looking it up what I found is on page 113 of the 1st age book "Weapons that have a +2 or more threat range enhancement cannot be used against models that are engaged in base-tobase contact with the wielder." Then on page 19 of the Rule book "Weapons that have a 3" threat range cannot be used against models that are Engaged with them after the first Game Round of Combat." So a model that has a natural threat range of 3" or greater is not bound by these rules as they only cover the weapon having the 3" threat range. For example in the last game I played I had a Huge Golem with a spear. Being Huge gave it a 4" threat range, and the spear added 1", so it had a total threat range of 5" but was able to use them in melee combat as only 1" was counted based on the rules.
My final thoughts are as you can see from the three of us that replied to this, we do not always agree on how the rules are read. Now I did not notice any major differences, but some are different enough that they could cause issues in a game. So my suggestion is to read the rules, if not clear (it is going to happen) ask you group if you all read it the same go with that, if not ask here (can do this even if you all do agree, may clear it up for others or may point out something you missed). Then based on what you get here decide for your group how you are going to run it and go with that even if it is 100% against the rules as written. A good case in point Durnaxe is my main foe (in game) and he has a group of spear chucker, based on the rules as written they are a limited ammo weapon, and as you are limited to only two weapons that does not make any sense to us saying that they can only have two shots per game and then have no weapon at all, but a bow or sling have unlimited ammo. So we decided that we are just going to ignore the limited ammo for them, this is 100% against eh rules as written but how our group is going to do it.
My answers will partially be similar to Durnaxe's. I'll just mention the points where I have a different reply.
1) giving warmounts something like bite or claws actually cán be useful. No they won't be able to 'simply' attack with it (due to 0 attack), but trample gives you an extra attack. Meaning you get to use your claws/bite because of the trample attack. Note this only goes for warmounts, since those have trample.
4) If the casting models in the squad all target themselves, the casting doesn't cost an action and they use a single shared cast attempt. If they target different squads/models, it will cost an action.
6) This one can be a bit confusing, and is hard to find a single determining answer for (since there's so many different abilities). -INCREASES- stack only within the same branch (unless rare shenanigans). ENHANCEMENT bonuses DO stack between branches (and usually come from abilities). Now, abilities that give some sort of X bonus CAN stack if the X of that ability is below/equal to the max age limit (4 in 1st age). However, abilities CAN'T be stacked if teh X is above that. For example, you CAN stack Evasion 1 with Evasion 2 to get Evasion 3. But you CAN'T stack Infiltrate 12 with Infiltrate 21.
7) War animals don't benefit from the traits the unit that 'bought' them has. So no adept hunter bonuses for your w.a.'s. You just have to calculate their Combat Sit separately. So I'd roll separately for them as well, if only because they're likely to have different statlines.
8) Do note that taking a trait for common mount still takes up a class/faction trait slot, and that the trait cost will be paid per mount with that trait.
9) Sounds like you have yet to come across a battlefield with dense terrain ; )
Indirect fire can be convenient for firing at a squad that's located behind a melee brawl; something you normally can't shoot through. Same with units hiding behind LOS-blocking cover. Another rule we use is that forests also block LOS if the attacking and defending units are on other sides of the forest, but neither is actually in it.
11) It's kinda weird, like Durnaxe says... I would say you're in melee combat when you're in someone's threat range or vice versa (since you can hit one another with reach weapons or large size). BUT you're not 'engaged' until you're base-to-base.
Welcome to Genesys, where you'll have more questions with each game you play, haha. But it's an experience unlike any other game, and a good one at that : ) If at some time your group really can't figure out what's intended/best/other, I recommend just making a homerule out of it that everyone (at least partially) agrees with.
Thanks for answering Durnaxe! yeah the rules are very loose in a lot of places. A lot of room for arguments and disagreements, but that can always be fixed with FAQ's or even homebrew for friendly games.
(i'm gonna keep the numbers rolling)
7. Still wondering about this. A War Animal is a piece of equipment, the same way that a mount or a sword is a piece of equipment, yes? Ignoring Exotic Animals here for second, my question here is do they benefit from the units traits? If i have a unit with Adept hunters (+1CS against anything not in my life sphere) do the war animals also get this? and if not, how do I calculate the CS? Would i roll separately for the Unit and the animals?
9. What then is the point of the Artillery and Indirect rules? The only difference when reading them is that Artillery must be stationary to fire... Which they already have to be because they are heavy Military weapons. I guess technically the Artillery pieces still need line of sight whereas Indirect doesn't, but from my experience there's never been a situation where line of sight was blocked enough to have that matter.
10. I guess my group didn't read the rules clearly enough here, we assumed that you could do your move and action in any order. And a friend was the one who told me about the moving and counting as stationary, but i can't find it either. I assume that means he probably read it wrong somewhere! XD
1. It kind of reads that you are only choosing which Biest Kingdom you get to pick the traits from. However even if you did get the natural weapons from it you would not be able to use them since you can only (A) Trample and (B) the Mounts have a 0 attack stat anyway. 2. Yes. You just cant take a Hybrid Trait into another Hybrid Trait. For example, I did something funky with a lvl 5 humanoid: Rare traits 2 (science/knowledge) to Hybrid Monster 1-Giant Monster (monster trait) And Forbidden Lore-Regenerative Properties (tier 2 water sphere trait). So from 1 trait I was able to take technically 4 traits. 3. Casting a spell that targets any other model uses an action. If it's hitting the Squad the wizard is a part of then yes, it uses an action because it is still targeting at least 1 other model. 4. You cast the spell individually and roll the dice individually so you could spread reinforced armor around. 5. It only gets applied once, since you the other options are worded in roughly the same way. For example the Fey lvl 5 says under increase wounds "You may take up to two additional wounds for 20pts each" where their properties say that "you may increase the maximum properties for any armory or power by 1 for 30pts". Since you cant keep dumping wounds into your class it would be the same for properties. 6. I'm not sure on this one but I'm going to ASSUME they stack because stuff likes Claws, Bite, ect stack and they are effected by the maximum age limit. 7. War animals are equipment, they do not get traits (unless its exotic war animals). They don't count towards morale, they don't count towards the squad size The war animal models themselves get sentry 14. It specifically says "and may join the squad in numbers equal to the highest discipline" and since they are still treated as equipment and not classes they do not get to make new squads. Same with War Beasts (since those ones can move). 8. A warmount is its own trait and not a common equipment so under the current wording, no. Under exotic animals it says Warmount there, not common mount. So taking exotic animals buffs your warmounts but not your standard ones. 9. No. Indirect and Artillery were added onto as addition rules and happen when they fire. In fact, artillery specifically says that you can only fire if you dont move.. The Scorpio did not get the FAQ update so It does not have those abilities. 10. You move and then perform your action or hold your action, you cant shoot then move. Also I cannot find where it says you can move your base movement and still count as stationary, could you provide a page number? 11. Tough question to answer because they did not clarify what counts as melee combat. For example if a model in a squad is not in threat range is it in melee combat (I ask this question earlier, still need an answer)? But under the current idea of "only models in threat range count as melee combat" I would say yes you have to recalculate your CS. 12. It specifically states that "Weapons that have a 3" threat range cannot be used against models that are engaged with them AFTER the FIRST game round of combat." Since it says weapons, an XL or Huge model with a natural threat range of 3"+ are not effect because they are not using a weapon with the 3" threat range rule. Hopefully this answers your questions. While the game system has some great potential the book(s) was(were) not written very well. I argue all the time with my friend when we play this because some of the rules are written very vaguely.